Club409

The best damn waste of time!

PC Parts Guide + Matt's New Computer

mike
Total posts: 2298
The buzz is that if you can wait a month or two the "Sandy Bridge" i3/5/7 will have better integrated graphics than some discrete graphics and have great batt lifehttp://www.anandtech.com/show/4084/intels-sandy-bridge-upheaval-in-the-mobile-landscape
Steven
Total posts: 751

If anyone is considering getting a laptop that someone else is paying for I highly recommend getting a solid state hard drive put in it.  Just got a new Macbook Pro today with a 500 GB SSD and it boots insanely fast really quiet too.  They're also apparently almost indestructible (one engineer in our division had a bad experience with his kid knocking a laptop off the counter and losing a bunch of data after that the SSDs became a justifiable business expense).  The quad core processor and 8 gb ram isn't too shabby either.  Hooray tax dollars!

Drew
Total posts: 5106

do ssds still have an expected useable lifespan? reading and writing a finite amount of times or something? feel like that would make me second guess every time i wanted to save whether it was really worth it even if it is negligible

Oscar
Total posts: 1323

Yeah SSDs still have a max lifespan of 5-30 thousand write cycles. However I just learned that they will lose data integrity if they are without power for extended periods of time and the drives with the higher write cycle lifetime sacrifice a significant amount of power off time in order to achieve the higher write cycle lifetime (1 year for the low write cycle drives 3 months for the high write cycle drives).

Additionally SSDs will actually decrease in performance as you use the computer due to the fact that flash must be erased and written in large blocks even if the data you are writing is only a few KB. To overwrite an existing block or append data to a partially full block you must read the existing data into memory modify it in memory erase the block then write the block to disk. But when the drive is new most blocks are empty so all you have to do is write to an empty block and you're done. But as the drive is used most blocks are at least partially full so you have to do the full read/write cycle.

Steven
Total posts: 751

Some of the newer SSDs should have lifetimes of 100000+ cycles (even at ~10000 it would still last longer than you're likely to own the drive since the lifetime is the number of cycles per block on the drive).  When they do fail the data already written is still accessible the drive just loses the ability to write new data so it's much less of a concern than you would typically think.  I can't imagine that the loss of data after 3-12 months without power is a significant concern in most applications (sure it's not going to replace tape backup) generally if I don't use a laptop for 3 months it's because I've gotten a new laptop and all data has been transfered.  I've heard about the slow down issues after use but never really seen it quantified how significant an effect is that supposed to be?  I would think it would still end up being faster than a standard HDD even after the slow down.

Oscar
Total posts: 1323

Oh wait my bad I misread the info. You only see data loss without power after you hit the specified write cycles. So with a new drive it will retain the data for a very long time without power. But after you hit say 30k writes the data may only last a few months without power.

You are correct about it being cycles per block; however modern OSes are constantly writing to the drive for things like filesystem journaling file metadata and the page file. Couple this with the wear-leveling algorithms built into the drive's controller and the writes on every block across the drive quickly add up.

Also there seems to be a lot of conflicting information out there but what it boils down to is there are 2 types of flash drives: SLC and MLC. SLC is less dense and therefore more expensive but has greater write endurance (100k cycles). MLC is more dense and therefore cheaper but has lower write endurance (10k cycles). (There's also enterprise level versions of both that give you the additional write cycles but lowered data retention time after you hit the write endurance limit I mentioned before)

As for the perfomance decline it can be significant (for comparison a 1TB Seagate standard HDD gets about 115MB/s in sequential writes). Supposedly there's a command called TRIM that's supposed to resolve this issue for most drives but you need Windows 7 or OS X 10.6.8 (just released) to be able to use it

mwinter
Total posts: 4312

.. or Linux :)

Oscar
Total posts: 1323

I was assuming you actually wanted to do something with the computer heyoooooooooooo

acelxix
Total posts: 2393
(Updated 9/21/2011 4:48 PM)

First 2012 gadgets fund purchase made:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220600.  Horray for fast large file transfers! :D  Apparently there have been issues with the sandforce 12xx and 2xxx controllers but supposedly they've resolved alot of the issues with the 2200 series.  *fingers crossed*